This is advice for the Kool Kidz. This shit never applies to the vast majority of us. Not one of the Kool Kidz, never was, never will be, and here's the part the Kool Kidz never get: I don't want to be. Just like Coleman tells us professional criminals do not want to live/be like the rest of us, most of us do not want to be Kool Kidz. This is their way through the world. It's not the way of the rest of us.
You don't necessarily have to be the top 1% pussy slayer. The Secret Society is very much about non-judgement and why I critiques the original article from RSD Tyler.
A lot of guys aren't going to be non-judgemental. A lot aren't going to go beyond the average.
Take from it what you will. I wrote it as a way to explain the way things are. What you do with that information is completely up to you.
This is spot on. I am an extremely judgemental person but ever since I've learned to appear non-judgemental women are way more fun and honest with. They actually communicate overtly without any subterfuge. I think also becoming a bit more attractive helps.
Some men will tell themselves (and others gullible enough) anything! It’s astonishing.
“It’s for the women. It’s for their empowerment. It’s to protect their reputation”. lol what a pile of crap.
I mean I get it, it sounds better than “we’re horny and want to fuck, not just that but we want variety and novelty, and obviously we like a little forbidden kink, so it needs to be part of a “secret society”, which we’ll couch as a status and exclusivity thing so the others who may call bullshit on the premise we can just exclude them and call them mean things like incel or wtv”.
In times of toxic masculinity and MeToo and all that bullshit, this is certainly a better PR campaign. You position it as it’s for the women so that stuff can’t be hurled at you. And it helps to do all this anonymously too. So I totally get it. I mean it was men who invented hormonal birth control and we did that to “empower women” too, and a good chunk of us have been reaping the benefits of that (no strings attached sex).
So I get it. There’s just something to be said for honesty too though. And here I make the assumption that you know the following and are just being dishonest - so I could be wrong and you don’t know any of this.
Reality is none of that is for the women. Every evo psych grad student (never mind seasoned researchers) can tell you in every study over and over the whole field of psych confirms that women have nowhere near the need and drive for sex, that men do (MUCH less kink). Something to do with, you know having 15x less testosterone than men and being biologically wired to experience much more stress and anxiety (socially and in sex), and then nurture wise having learned that sex is more dangerous for them. So you know, it couldn’t possibly be that this secret society thing is for the women.
Furthermore, since monogamy became the norm and the minority of men who had more than 1 woman had to forego that lifestyle they’ve had to find outlets to dabble in their need for novelty, thrill, kink, etc. outside of their 1 mandated relationship. And such a minority has done that in various ways over time. That’s probably where your secret society fits in.
So no, not for the women but for men who still want to whet their beak on the side. (Every man wants to and would it if it was risk free, but majority find other outlets to control their urges)
There’s an extremely small minority of women who are as you describe (sex fiends); they’re usually victims of abuse at a young age or maybe just biologically wired that way. Even smaller set of those women do enjoy rape fantasies and gangbang fantasies and all the doors you mention. But definitely not enough for you to have a “secret society” built around them, if it was your goal in the first place to cater to them.
You’re right about there being another party upstairs beyond the main house party downstairs. What you may or may not know, that those women willing to do what they do up there (drugs, sex, make out with her girlfriend, etc) are doing most of those things to impress the guys, not because they have an innate desire for those things. They’re basically young and stupid. That’s why virtually all of the women who “experiment” with their gf when they’re young go on to be normal, straight women with no hint of bisexuality.
And last but not least, as part of your shtick about “let’s all have sex in the society and not judge each other”, you’re basically telling a bunch of men to be cucks. Not in the technical use of the term but the colloquial use. When you talk about Tracey or whoever who got a train run on her and then went on to have a happy marriage, you’re basically telling men to be ok being the guy to marry her after said train. To deal with the fall out of what that experience entails, including never being able to live up to it with his 1 dick. That goes against the essence of being a man, which you may or may not know. Men don’t like being with women that the whole football team took turns at. Men like women to be a nasty little slut with them (not the guys at the local “secret society” meetup). And yes men wouldnt mind doing that to some other women who aren’t his woman. Most don’t but would like the novelty and variety as I said. It’s a contradiction yes, but that’s how it is. A mature and developed man would know this, in his bones, even if his older brother didn’t tell him.
I wonder why you wrote these 2 pieces. It’s such a missed opportunity because being anonymous you could’ve used your “pen” to say the things that most men can’t say, about how things actually are. About how they manage through monogamy but wish it could be otherwise, somehow (understanding this is the most stable type of society). You can do so much but spun this yarn about men want to be hedonists for the women. Like I said, maybe you really believe this and aren’t aware of history or the things about human nature I listed above, or maybe are just young and I’m throwing too much at you.
Anyway, your writing is good regardless of all the above! Keep it up, whether you choose to wield it more constructively or not. ✌️
I am totally down for criticism, but there are a lot of assumptions that you are making about me.
Also, there is a lot of Madonna/Whore complex ahit in your writing which actually proves the point I was making.
As for intent. I'm not telling guys what to do. I am letting them know women are going to fuck and have a history you will never know. It isn't beneficial to be judgemental, but if you do, you do.
I'm not dad 2.0. I'm not telling guys what to do. I let them know from my life experience (which is a lot more than you assume) what I think is beneficial and why.
In all of your replies, it came through loudly how you responded to half a dozen things but nowhere did you address my main (and really only) point. That being that it’s bullshit to say this whole thing is “for women and their empowerment and their reputations bla bla bla”. It’s for the men, not the women! And I used various arguments to make my case (evo psych and adding some scientific credibility to this beyond “stuff I know” bro science). You could’ve felt free to respond to my point but didn’t which is telling in and of itself, and does tell me quite a bit about your age (also your guess of mine was wrong btw, I’m a bit older than that and quite a bit older than you evidently).
And yea fair enough, you don’t have to be dad 2.0. It’s your writing and you can use it how you wish, as I said last time. Just would’ve been nice if you used it more constructively to actually help men, but it’s your prerogative.
By the way, it wasn’t lost on me how you used deniability by saying I took your writing too literally; the same thing in your piece you accused the other author of doing. You can use that excuse for any part of your writing if the reader doesn’t know which part you made up and which they should take literally. Anyway I digress.
If you had to guess, roughly what percentage of women "go upstairs"? In my experience, a large minority (like ~45%) never leave the first floor, meaning they don't sleep around and only have sex in the context of stable relationships.
That's a good question. Almost every single girl has been up there at least once. It doesn’t have to be anything extreme.
From my experience most girls have a guy they can call when they get an itch, it will be scratched, nobody mentions it and that's all it is. That counts.
I've been that guy to a handful of women when I was younger. You get talking, they test the waters, they know your cool and at some point I got the call at 1am "hey, what are you doing?".
I nuked it for now. Made the choice to reprioritize a bunch of things and the YouTube I decided to cut for now.
It may not be gone forever. I had no intention of growing the channel, it was going to be practice for the first year or two anyways.
With that said, if there is a demand for Sex Ed. I still have all the means to do it and wouldn't mind hoping on a private livestream to chat with a bunch of people. So if you (or anyone else who reads this comment) is interested in that, I can set aside some time in the future to make that happen.
"A man's ego can be a mother fucker. The desire to claim a woman's sexuality for his own can make a man neurotic and extremely judgemental. Despite your best efforts as a man, girls just want to have fun; and they will, with or without your approval.
Furthermore, once a woman does settle into a relationship, they are not going to be that nasty little slut with you, if you have done nothing but show her that you shame such behavior. If you pull that shit, you really are shooting yourself in the dick."
Reminds me so badly of Chasing Amy. The movie is pretty much about this topic.
Fortunately in the real world you don't even need an invitation upstairs. You just need to drop judgement and be willing to explore your own boundaries. For example, I personally like MFM but it could be too much for some dudes but then they'll be happy to suck on toes which I won't do. So figure out what you would and wouldn't do and advertise.
Invitation becomes important though if you are going to embed yourself into a swingers scene.
100%. The invitation was more of a metaphor than a literal invitation.
Once judgement is dropped (which many times does coincide with your own sexual exploration as a man) you'll find women open up a hell of a lot more.
That was the point of the analogy and why I think most guys will never get "upstairs". There own judgment prohibits it from happening and it is something that can't really be bullshitted; your body language will hive you away. Also, hence the final "vibe check".
Nah, I think it’s a reasonable take. You gloss over it in Part 1, but as you said there we have a social dynamic now that men want women who are “sexually experienced and open”, without having the baggage of prior sexual experience. It’s a kind of narcissistic idealization of pleasure, and the result is that people are expected to somehow fit that model with no consequences.
It’s obviously ridiculous to extend this concept out. Is anyone going to seriously argue that the “House Party” accurately describes the life of men and women in Afghanistan, Nigeria, or Tibet? It seems to be an artifact of, in particular, modern European culture and possibly some other highly industrialized societies like Coastal China, Japan, and Korea. There’s a dialectical divide here. It can be that women have always been like this, or it can be that women have not always been like this. If women have always been like this, we would expect to see this kind of behavior across most if not all human societies. But we don’t. We see it in a few specific human societies, which share mostly a relatively recent common culture and time, and not a geographical or ethnic heritage.
Yeah, this was very much written for an urban Westernized society. Though, certain aspects (non-judgement for example) are going to ring true worldwide
I guess I would not like it. If there is one thing I hate at a passionate, gut level is any kind of exclusivity, especially if it is not based on something like buying a VIP ticket but based on knowing people and making them think you are cool, because that reeks of snobbish elitism to me. I am not better than anyone, they are not better than anyone, and I really don't want to participate in an act better than anyone game.
For this reason I have always avoided those BDSM parties that are not completely open to the public and even those that reeked too much like an old clique of friends. As you can imagine at those events that were not, almost nothing happened because the whole thing is trust-based, so eventually I stopped going and went for getting to know potential partners online, which worked surprisingly well.
I get where you are coming from. As far as "The Secret Society" goes being "cool" really just means non-judgemental (also I failed to mention seemingly overly eager doesn't work in your favor either).
It isn't an exclusive club. It is a way to describe the small group of guys women may get with after they have been burned.
I’m wondering if some of the critics of hookup culture might be classified as “virtuous losers” or some other rightfully negative classification?
It seems the message from these critics is: “i had bad experiences with casual sex. They (hookup culture) made me do it. Now we need to stop hookup culture to save the young people going into it.”
Hookup culture might be the secret room in this analogy.
Hookup culture is just a combination of casual dating and one night stands. It has been around for a while. The only two groups that seem to complain are guys who can't get laid and girls who can't lock down a guy.
As for the guys that kick the ladder out from them: fuck those guys.
Yes. Those who benefited then chastise the incoming group for having the same experience.
As for your other question, people are free to have their criticisms. This also isn't an ingroup. There is no "Team Stripper" or "Team Guys Who Fuck". It is what it is. When it isn't, then ignore it.
But it doesn’t seem to work for the critics of hook up culture.
Ignoring them seems like a simple solution…unless we may have something to fear for them coming for us?
Real life examples of cultural critics of people’s sex lives growing to gaining real power: the anti-gay movement, the anti-birth control movement, the abstinence-only sex ed movement, the ex-gay movement, etc
Lots of good wisdom. A lot of Substackers might benefit from this perspective. There is still, all things considered, a beneficial role to non-judgmentalism, even in sexual choices. I believe men who walk without judgment into these lands can have a good time and make great enjoyable interactions regardless of whether they get sex or invites to the secret clubs. Be good and be not entitled, and people around you will usually give good things to you.
Exactly! I always find myself to be in spaces where people are less judgmental. Also, when I myself are judgmental of things, I try very hard not to show it and then get myself more acquainted or just keep to myself.
This is advice for the Kool Kidz. This shit never applies to the vast majority of us. Not one of the Kool Kidz, never was, never will be, and here's the part the Kool Kidz never get: I don't want to be. Just like Coleman tells us professional criminals do not want to live/be like the rest of us, most of us do not want to be Kool Kidz. This is their way through the world. It's not the way of the rest of us.
You're not wrong.
You don't necessarily have to be the top 1% pussy slayer. The Secret Society is very much about non-judgement and why I critiques the original article from RSD Tyler.
A lot of guys aren't going to be non-judgemental. A lot aren't going to go beyond the average.
Take from it what you will. I wrote it as a way to explain the way things are. What you do with that information is completely up to you.
This is spot on. I am an extremely judgemental person but ever since I've learned to appear non-judgemental women are way more fun and honest with. They actually communicate overtly without any subterfuge. I think also becoming a bit more attractive helps.
Some men will tell themselves (and others gullible enough) anything! It’s astonishing.
“It’s for the women. It’s for their empowerment. It’s to protect their reputation”. lol what a pile of crap.
I mean I get it, it sounds better than “we’re horny and want to fuck, not just that but we want variety and novelty, and obviously we like a little forbidden kink, so it needs to be part of a “secret society”, which we’ll couch as a status and exclusivity thing so the others who may call bullshit on the premise we can just exclude them and call them mean things like incel or wtv”.
In times of toxic masculinity and MeToo and all that bullshit, this is certainly a better PR campaign. You position it as it’s for the women so that stuff can’t be hurled at you. And it helps to do all this anonymously too. So I totally get it. I mean it was men who invented hormonal birth control and we did that to “empower women” too, and a good chunk of us have been reaping the benefits of that (no strings attached sex).
So I get it. There’s just something to be said for honesty too though. And here I make the assumption that you know the following and are just being dishonest - so I could be wrong and you don’t know any of this.
Reality is none of that is for the women. Every evo psych grad student (never mind seasoned researchers) can tell you in every study over and over the whole field of psych confirms that women have nowhere near the need and drive for sex, that men do (MUCH less kink). Something to do with, you know having 15x less testosterone than men and being biologically wired to experience much more stress and anxiety (socially and in sex), and then nurture wise having learned that sex is more dangerous for them. So you know, it couldn’t possibly be that this secret society thing is for the women.
Furthermore, since monogamy became the norm and the minority of men who had more than 1 woman had to forego that lifestyle they’ve had to find outlets to dabble in their need for novelty, thrill, kink, etc. outside of their 1 mandated relationship. And such a minority has done that in various ways over time. That’s probably where your secret society fits in.
So no, not for the women but for men who still want to whet their beak on the side. (Every man wants to and would it if it was risk free, but majority find other outlets to control their urges)
There’s an extremely small minority of women who are as you describe (sex fiends); they’re usually victims of abuse at a young age or maybe just biologically wired that way. Even smaller set of those women do enjoy rape fantasies and gangbang fantasies and all the doors you mention. But definitely not enough for you to have a “secret society” built around them, if it was your goal in the first place to cater to them.
You’re right about there being another party upstairs beyond the main house party downstairs. What you may or may not know, that those women willing to do what they do up there (drugs, sex, make out with her girlfriend, etc) are doing most of those things to impress the guys, not because they have an innate desire for those things. They’re basically young and stupid. That’s why virtually all of the women who “experiment” with their gf when they’re young go on to be normal, straight women with no hint of bisexuality.
And last but not least, as part of your shtick about “let’s all have sex in the society and not judge each other”, you’re basically telling a bunch of men to be cucks. Not in the technical use of the term but the colloquial use. When you talk about Tracey or whoever who got a train run on her and then went on to have a happy marriage, you’re basically telling men to be ok being the guy to marry her after said train. To deal with the fall out of what that experience entails, including never being able to live up to it with his 1 dick. That goes against the essence of being a man, which you may or may not know. Men don’t like being with women that the whole football team took turns at. Men like women to be a nasty little slut with them (not the guys at the local “secret society” meetup). And yes men wouldnt mind doing that to some other women who aren’t his woman. Most don’t but would like the novelty and variety as I said. It’s a contradiction yes, but that’s how it is. A mature and developed man would know this, in his bones, even if his older brother didn’t tell him.
I wonder why you wrote these 2 pieces. It’s such a missed opportunity because being anonymous you could’ve used your “pen” to say the things that most men can’t say, about how things actually are. About how they manage through monogamy but wish it could be otherwise, somehow (understanding this is the most stable type of society). You can do so much but spun this yarn about men want to be hedonists for the women. Like I said, maybe you really believe this and aren’t aware of history or the things about human nature I listed above, or maybe are just young and I’m throwing too much at you.
Anyway, your writing is good regardless of all the above! Keep it up, whether you choose to wield it more constructively or not. ✌️
I am totally down for criticism, but there are a lot of assumptions that you are making about me.
Also, there is a lot of Madonna/Whore complex ahit in your writing which actually proves the point I was making.
As for intent. I'm not telling guys what to do. I am letting them know women are going to fuck and have a history you will never know. It isn't beneficial to be judgemental, but if you do, you do.
I'm not dad 2.0. I'm not telling guys what to do. I let them know from my life experience (which is a lot more than you assume) what I think is beneficial and why.
Agency is better left to the individual.
In all of your replies, it came through loudly how you responded to half a dozen things but nowhere did you address my main (and really only) point. That being that it’s bullshit to say this whole thing is “for women and their empowerment and their reputations bla bla bla”. It’s for the men, not the women! And I used various arguments to make my case (evo psych and adding some scientific credibility to this beyond “stuff I know” bro science). You could’ve felt free to respond to my point but didn’t which is telling in and of itself, and does tell me quite a bit about your age (also your guess of mine was wrong btw, I’m a bit older than that and quite a bit older than you evidently).
And yea fair enough, you don’t have to be dad 2.0. It’s your writing and you can use it how you wish, as I said last time. Just would’ve been nice if you used it more constructively to actually help men, but it’s your prerogative.
By the way, it wasn’t lost on me how you used deniability by saying I took your writing too literally; the same thing in your piece you accused the other author of doing. You can use that excuse for any part of your writing if the reader doesn’t know which part you made up and which they should take literally. Anyway I digress.
K
If you had to guess, roughly what percentage of women "go upstairs"? In my experience, a large minority (like ~45%) never leave the first floor, meaning they don't sleep around and only have sex in the context of stable relationships.
That's a good question. Almost every single girl has been up there at least once. It doesn’t have to be anything extreme.
From my experience most girls have a guy they can call when they get an itch, it will be scratched, nobody mentions it and that's all it is. That counts.
I've been that guy to a handful of women when I was younger. You get talking, they test the waters, they know your cool and at some point I got the call at 1am "hey, what are you doing?".
Any stories of guys and girls becoming good friends after the girl said no to the guy’s wish for sex?
What helps such friendships to survive and thrive? Does the girl ever become a good dating coach and matchmaker for this guy?
Oh, wow. You have no idea. The vast, vast majority.
Not that many. Men just aren't that good in bed to inspire enough women to go upstairs.
@Stripper. How come your youtube channel has no videos on it anymore? Was it deleted by you or did an asshole block you?
I nuked it for now. Made the choice to reprioritize a bunch of things and the YouTube I decided to cut for now.
It may not be gone forever. I had no intention of growing the channel, it was going to be practice for the first year or two anyways.
With that said, if there is a demand for Sex Ed. I still have all the means to do it and wouldn't mind hoping on a private livestream to chat with a bunch of people. So if you (or anyone else who reads this comment) is interested in that, I can set aside some time in the future to make that happen.
What was your channel about?
I have the same question.
Sex Education. Not how to get laid, but the actual nuts and bolts of sex for a better and safer sex life.
Bang! Bang! Bang! Stop having fun you bitches! 🤣
Got to thank Nuke for that one.
"A man's ego can be a mother fucker. The desire to claim a woman's sexuality for his own can make a man neurotic and extremely judgemental. Despite your best efforts as a man, girls just want to have fun; and they will, with or without your approval.
Furthermore, once a woman does settle into a relationship, they are not going to be that nasty little slut with you, if you have done nothing but show her that you shame such behavior. If you pull that shit, you really are shooting yourself in the dick."
Reminds me so badly of Chasing Amy. The movie is pretty much about this topic.
Silent Bob's story in particular - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wrLK8GSH5og
Finger cuffs! I totally forgot about that movie. But yeah, essentially.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Fortunately in the real world you don't even need an invitation upstairs. You just need to drop judgement and be willing to explore your own boundaries. For example, I personally like MFM but it could be too much for some dudes but then they'll be happy to suck on toes which I won't do. So figure out what you would and wouldn't do and advertise.
Invitation becomes important though if you are going to embed yourself into a swingers scene.
100%. The invitation was more of a metaphor than a literal invitation.
Once judgement is dropped (which many times does coincide with your own sexual exploration as a man) you'll find women open up a hell of a lot more.
That was the point of the analogy and why I think most guys will never get "upstairs". There own judgment prohibits it from happening and it is something that can't really be bullshitted; your body language will hive you away. Also, hence the final "vibe check".
Why does this feel so toxic
My guess is because it doesn't paint the picture that women are "sugar and spice and everything nice".
Nah, I think it’s a reasonable take. You gloss over it in Part 1, but as you said there we have a social dynamic now that men want women who are “sexually experienced and open”, without having the baggage of prior sexual experience. It’s a kind of narcissistic idealization of pleasure, and the result is that people are expected to somehow fit that model with no consequences.
It’s obviously ridiculous to extend this concept out. Is anyone going to seriously argue that the “House Party” accurately describes the life of men and women in Afghanistan, Nigeria, or Tibet? It seems to be an artifact of, in particular, modern European culture and possibly some other highly industrialized societies like Coastal China, Japan, and Korea. There’s a dialectical divide here. It can be that women have always been like this, or it can be that women have not always been like this. If women have always been like this, we would expect to see this kind of behavior across most if not all human societies. But we don’t. We see it in a few specific human societies, which share mostly a relatively recent common culture and time, and not a geographical or ethnic heritage.
Yeah, this was very much written for an urban Westernized society. Though, certain aspects (non-judgement for example) are going to ring true worldwide
Personally I yearn for more depth. Thx for sharing though.
I guess I would not like it. If there is one thing I hate at a passionate, gut level is any kind of exclusivity, especially if it is not based on something like buying a VIP ticket but based on knowing people and making them think you are cool, because that reeks of snobbish elitism to me. I am not better than anyone, they are not better than anyone, and I really don't want to participate in an act better than anyone game.
For this reason I have always avoided those BDSM parties that are not completely open to the public and even those that reeked too much like an old clique of friends. As you can imagine at those events that were not, almost nothing happened because the whole thing is trust-based, so eventually I stopped going and went for getting to know potential partners online, which worked surprisingly well.
I get where you are coming from. As far as "The Secret Society" goes being "cool" really just means non-judgemental (also I failed to mention seemingly overly eager doesn't work in your favor either).
It isn't an exclusive club. It is a way to describe the small group of guys women may get with after they have been burned.
That's all it really is.
I’m wondering if some of the critics of hookup culture might be classified as “virtuous losers” or some other rightfully negative classification?
It seems the message from these critics is: “i had bad experiences with casual sex. They (hookup culture) made me do it. Now we need to stop hookup culture to save the young people going into it.”
Hookup culture might be the secret room in this analogy.
Or…am i wrong about this? I’m listening.
Hookup culture is just a combination of casual dating and one night stands. It has been around for a while. The only two groups that seem to complain are guys who can't get laid and girls who can't lock down a guy.
As for the guys that kick the ladder out from them: fuck those guys.
Should any of us defend hookup culture against the critics? Or just ignore them? We are seeing a lot of anti-hook up commentary on Substack.
Also, who are the ones “kicking the ladder from under them”?
Are we talking about those who benefited from hookup culture and then criticized it? If so, “benefit” means…getting sex? Finding a spouse?
Yes. Those who benefited then chastise the incoming group for having the same experience.
As for your other question, people are free to have their criticisms. This also isn't an ingroup. There is no "Team Stripper" or "Team Guys Who Fuck". It is what it is. When it isn't, then ignore it.
Live and let live works for me.
But it doesn’t seem to work for the critics of hook up culture.
Ignoring them seems like a simple solution…unless we may have something to fear for them coming for us?
Real life examples of cultural critics of people’s sex lives growing to gaining real power: the anti-gay movement, the anti-birth control movement, the abstinence-only sex ed movement, the ex-gay movement, etc
Or…am I sounding the alarm bell unnecessarily?
No alarm bell, man. Chill.
Why the secret society is secret in a nutshell
The article was intense and great to read!
Lots of good wisdom. A lot of Substackers might benefit from this perspective. There is still, all things considered, a beneficial role to non-judgmentalism, even in sexual choices. I believe men who walk without judgment into these lands can have a good time and make great enjoyable interactions regardless of whether they get sex or invites to the secret clubs. Be good and be not entitled, and people around you will usually give good things to you.
Exactly! I always find myself to be in spaces where people are less judgmental. Also, when I myself are judgmental of things, I try very hard not to show it and then get myself more acquainted or just keep to myself.